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Post by Kelly G on Jan 23, 2013 11:34:41 GMT -8
I personally can't stand the "pay as you play" model. This was my thinking as well initially. But when I looked at it again, I was already in the "Pay to play" model when I was playing Forza. I paid $120Cdn for the Limited Edition, $60 for a Gold Membership, then depending on DLC packs, paid between $10-20 for each of those. Of that, I don't think there was one track but there were lots of cars that I didn't like and never used. With Simraceway, I've only purchased the cars I want to drive. I don't have to pay for content I don't want nor will I use. iRacing is turning out to be the same way. I'll purchase the cars I like and will use with GBR events, and ditto with tracks. I will only purchase the road circuits that I want. Everything else can just sit on the virtual shelf. The other advantage is that I don't have to buy all the tracks/cars in one shot. I can buy a car and a track here and there and its not really a major impact on my wallet per purchase. I've held off on buying the rFactor2 Beta because the trend seems to be most of the mod/track developers moving off to other projects and while I know folks here are playing it, I'm still one the fence. I think iRacing has shown that the "Pay to Play" model works so I forsee more developers going that route rather than not so I suppose we better be prepared to shell out on a regular basis for our virtual motorsports love. My thoughts only of course. |
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Post by Knight of Redemption on Jan 23, 2013 11:38:41 GMT -8
Remember ISI have a pro sim used by F1 teams, wanna take a guess at the kind of cash floating around that pond? They seem to take a long view, keeping updating the one sim rather than a long list of "new" games. This is cheaper as you have no need for massive advertising, lets face it Rf1 is still selling to the point it was worth updating it for Win 8. So RF1 will run on Win 8 now??? Yes the latest Rf1 download is for Win 8 |
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Post by zero7159 on Jan 23, 2013 11:55:11 GMT -8
Think about it guys. Its economics. I had a Sega Master System in 1986 or 1987. The games cost $50-$70. The typical price for console games today is $60, and the typical price for PC games is $50. See where I am going here? The base price of a game today has gone down dramatically when you factor in inflation. The console manufacturers and game publishers are afraid to go past $60 and so they instead keep the base price there, but then charge us for DLC, Season Passes, limited editions, etc. The "pay as you play" model is simply a variant of what everyone else is already doing. iRacing gives you a free or very cheap price for the base game and content, but to get the rest, you pay through the nose, but you also get a lot, including dedicated servers, centralized race schedules, comprehensive forums, regular build updates, etc. rFactor 1's model has the cheap base game cost, $20, but the mods are mostly free. Its still a mystery to me as to how they pulled that off, but I doubt that rFactor 2 will be able to do it. My guess is that many if not most of rFactor 2's mods will cost money.
We gamers are a weird bunch. We are willing to pay $600 for a wheel (T500RS), $270 for a set of aluminum pedals (Clubsports V.2), $500 for a cockpit (rSeat), $600 for triple screens (Asus 24 inch), $1500 for a gaming PC (lots of examples), $300 for a set of gaming headphones (Warheads), but we get torqued about paying over $800 for content in iRacing. I include myself in that camp and if my wife knew what I spent to have all "content" in iRacing, the world would be a better place with one less lawyer. We are willing to pay thousands for the gear, but not hundreds for the content.
Where am I going with this? My point is that this can be a very expensive hobby, and my experience has been that doing it cheaply is becoming extremely difficult, even if I am willing to not play the latest and greatest stuff. The days of paying $60 for Forza 3, and $150 for a M$ wheel, and getting thousands of hours of enjoyment out of it, with no additional cost, are gone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 11:58:24 GMT -8
Iam the same as you kelly.....at first it sounded like a rip off but than i thought of fm4 and how much i wasted.....Ive gotten hooked to iracing the only thing iam not keen on is the price of a monthly membership, if it was half the price or had more annual discounts on renewal id bee ok with it. same as you ill purchase the cars i want and the tracks when i need it.
I was just reading an article today talking about the pay as you go and it seems to be the way the racing sim world is heading.
As for rf2 for all the same reasons i feel the same....the other thing was the article on future of modding made some good points....yes the modders can possibly do just as good a job as the devs, but it will take time, and like most of the good modders from rf1 that moved on to their own projects the question arises if you can create a mod at todays standards why wouldnt you want to get paid for it?
The winner of this new pay as you go will be the one who can creates the best overal product at the cheapest price....and with all the future games except rf2 doing this micro transition thing i am sure prices will drop to compete with each other......one can only hope
question i had about this simraceway.....are all the tracks laser scanned or just some?
i tested it back in the summer,granted i only ran a few tracks....ffb seemed avg and the tracks didnt seem any better than rf1's best.....has the game been updated and newer features been added?
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Post by Knight of Redemption on Jan 23, 2013 11:59:05 GMT -8
Remember ISI have a pro sim used by F1 teams, wanna take a guess at the kind of cash floating around that pond? They seem to take a long view, keeping updating the one sim rather than a long list of "new" games. This is cheaper as you have no need for massive advertising, lets face it Rf1 is still selling to the point it was worth updating it for Win 8. Strangely they have also said publicly that money is not their primary motivation, and that is refreshing in this day and age. Hmm, that makes more sense. It sounds like their primary gravy train is not rFactor. Of course, rFactor 2 is being handled differently, is it not? Like many of you, I already paid $40-$50, with no release date in sight. Did they do the same kind of thing with rFactor 1? Well they have always used the method of upgrading content over time, with rF2 it is a matter of getting the base program core at the point that Modders can safely release a Mod without ISI coming out with an update to core data that means the Mod no longer works. Much has been made of Modders leaving but the fact remains there are good Modders releasing beta mods now, and with a backlog of stuff they are holding off on until the base stuff is in place. I think we will see a flood of greats mods once it is released as a full commercial product, we will also see ISI continuing to improve and add content for many years to come. As most of you can probably this is the one I am most impressed with. The physics and FFB are simply better IMHO than anything else. This is due in no small part I think to the fact rF2 is based on their Pro software engine, so what we are seeing is them squeezing this into a home PC and why the graphics are still a bit dated. I think once they have got the core engine running 100% the graphics engine will be overhauled, this has been intimated many times by Tim on the forum. The pricing model has changed with either a yearly payment of $12 or a lifetime payment of $85 to access online play. If you have bought into the beta then they will take that cost off the lifetime payment |
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Post by helios16v on Jan 23, 2013 12:57:47 GMT -8
We gamers are a weird bunch. We are willing to pay $600 for a wheel (T500RS), $270 for a set of aluminum pedals (Clubsports V.2), $500 for a cockpit (rSeat), $600 for triple screens (Asus 24 inch), $1500 for a gaming PC (lots of examples), $300 for a set of gaming headphones (Warheads), but we get torqued about paying over $800 for content in iRacing. I include myself in that camp and if my wife knew what I spent to have all "content" in iRacing, the world would be a better place with one less lawyer. We are willing to pay thousands for the gear, but not hundreds for the content. I would be careful not to lump all of us in that statement. A lot of us don't have the funds to go to that level. I like to think I've got a fairly generous setup, but it's still no where near the level of your setup (or Hawks, or Smok3y). Wheel - $180 (far cry from $600) Pedals - $240 (older v1, slightly cheaper than $260, not much difference there) Cockpit - $250 (and that was splurging for the shifter mount. Used an old seat I had around to save money) PC & triples (probably close), but these can be used for a lot more than just iRacing. Headphones - $60 (no way I can justify $300 headphones to myself. It's awesome they work for you, but it's just not in mine or others budgets) Could I have gotten a CSW or T500?...Yes, but I would have been running on a desk and single monitor. I cut some corners on some equipment, so I could expand my overall experience. The money I saved on the wheel, allowed me to purchase the cockpit, and part of the triple monitor setup. Likewise, opting to purchase just the cockpit base & use a seat I had laying around to be able to purchase the shifter. IIRC, Kelly followed sort of the same route, opting for a less expensive wheel, allowing the finances for a rig. So yes, I do get torqued about spending hundreds of dollars for content for a single sim. It's awesome it works for you and you feel you get your money's worth out of it...ultimately that is all that matters (I know Jarhead feels the same too). But for me, I get more enjoyment running rF1 & Race07 with the GBR & 2O2R/2O4F guys. I'm going to continue my iRacing membership, particularly to continue racing with the guys here in it (plus I'm kinda committed w/ what I've purchased already), but the new shininess has begun to wear off for me. I'm actually contemplating pulling out of the Daytona 2.4 to run Race 07 (GTR Evo) in GT cars at Nurburgring GP instead...just to run with guys that I have fun running with. Another note on spending money on equipment, the equipment can be used on multiple sims. Where as the equivalent money on 1 sim is just that...on one sim. So in those terms, I would say the equipment is still a much better "value" as it's not as limited in usage. From what I'm seeing so far, I'm afraid Simraceway, following the same type of model, is going to have the same effect on me. Because of that, I think rF2 is likely going to be my go to for next gen sims (potentially Asetto Corsa, if they plan on following ISI's modding philosophy). edit - I'm actually having fun playing counter-point to Craig. ;D Though I'm afraid I'd be crushed if he ever decided to put his Lawyer skills to use.  |
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Post by zero7159 on Jan 23, 2013 13:16:23 GMT -8
We gamers are a weird bunch. We are willing to pay $600 for a wheel (T500RS), $270 for a set of aluminum pedals (Clubsports V.2), $500 for a cockpit (rSeat), $600 for triple screens (Asus 24 inch), $1500 for a gaming PC (lots of examples), $300 for a set of gaming headphones (Warheads), but we get torqued about paying over $800 for content in iRacing. I include myself in that camp and if my wife knew what I spent to have all "content" in iRacing, the world would be a better place with one less lawyer. We are willing to pay thousands for the gear, but not hundreds for the content. I would be careful not to lump all of us in that statement. A lot of us don't have the funds to go to that level. I like to think I've got a fairly generous setup, but it's still no where near the level of your setup (or Hawks, or Smok3y). Wheel - $180 (far cry from $600) Pedals - $240 (older v1, slightly cheaper than $260, not much difference there) Cockpit - $250 (and that was splurging for the shifter mount. Used an old seat I had around to save money) PC & triples (probably close), but these can be used for a lot more than just iRacing. Headphones - $60 (no way I can justify $300 headphones to myself. It's awesome they work for you, but it's just not in mine or others budgets) Could I have gotten a CSW or T500?...Yes, but I would have been running on a desk and single monitor. I cut some corners on some equipment, so I could expand my overall experience. The money I saved on the wheel, allowed me to purchase the cockpit, and part of the triple monitor setup. Likewise, opting to purchase just the cockpit base & use a seat I had laying around to be able to purchase the shifter. IIRC, Kelly followed sort of the same route, opting for a less expensive wheel, allowing the finances for a rig. So yes, I do get torqued about spending hundreds of dollars for content for a single sim. It's awesome it works for you and you feel you get your money's worth out of it...ultimately that is all that matters (I know Jarhead feels the same too). But for me, I get more enjoyment running rF1 & Race07 with the GBR & 2O2R/2O4F guys. I'm going to continue my iRacing membership, particularly to continue racing with the guys here in it (plus I'm kinda committed w/ what I've purchased already), but the new shininess has begun to wear off for me. I'm actually contemplating pulling out of the Daytona 2.4 to run Race 07 (GTR Evo) in GT cars at Nurburgring GP instead...just to run with guys that I have fun running with. Another note on spending money on equipment, the equipment can be used on multiple sims. Where as the equivalent money on 1 sim is just that...on one sim. So in those terms, I would say the equipment is still a much better "value" as it's not as limited in usage. From what I'm seeing so far, I'm afraid Simraceway, following the same type of model, is going to have the same effect on me. Because of that, I think rF2 is likely going to be my go to for next gen sims (potentially Asetto Corsa, if they plan on following ISI's modding philosophy). edit - I'm actually having fun playing counter-point to Craig. ;D Though I'm afraid I'd be crushed if he ever decided to put his Lawyer skills to use. Actually, I don't disagree with anything you have said. I also have attempted whenever possible to keep equipment cost to a minimum. You have me on wheels, I am in to the CSR Elite for $560, and the T500RS for $700, factoring in the F1 rim and shifter. I also have spent $$$ on pedals, as I have two sets of Clubsports. But, I went the cheap route on the cockpit by using wheel stands and a hand me down Playseat from Hawks.  I also have used 24 inch monitors, one of which I bought in 2008 and continue to use today. And, I built my own PC to keep costs down. But, don't misunderstand me, I choke when I think about the money I have spent on iRacing. Yes, I feel like I got my money's worth, but that doesn't mean I was happy to spend the money. Its a subtle, but important distinction. If I had the choice to spend $25 on the PC version of F1 2012, or over $800 on iRacing content, I would choose F1 2012. My point is that I just don't see that as a viable option in the future. I do feel like the money each of us have spent on this hobby is a good deal compared to other hobbies. My hunting buddies occasionally fill me in on their hunting equipment and gear, and it makes us look downright thrifty. Skiing is another hobby with much greater cost than sim racing. |
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Post by helios16v on Jan 23, 2013 13:23:32 GMT -8
I do feel like the money each of us have spent on this hobby is a good deal compared to other hobbies. My hunting buddies occasionally fill me in on their hunting equipment and gear, and it makes us look downright thrifty. Skiing is another hobby with much greater cost than sim racing. I hear you there. My car projects aren't cheap.... And I've been eyeballing bikes for shits & giggles. Those are going to be horrendously expensive if I do ever pull the trigger. Colnago, Pinarello, Cervelo, Eddy Merckx..... Dale knows exactly what I'm talking about. If you aren't in the road bike scene at all, none of the above probably means anything. ;D Truthfully I really don't need a new bike, as I've already got a pretty awesome one, albeit a tad old (2002 Trek 5200). |
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F1Fan07
Race Director
Ludicrous speed. Gone to plaid.
Posts: 9,366
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Post by F1Fan07 on Jan 23, 2013 13:31:08 GMT -8
And I've been eyeballing bikes for shits & giggles. Those are going to be horrendously expensive if I do ever pull the trigger. Colnago, Pinarello, Cervelo, Eddy Merckx..... Dale knows exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah, though my window shopping is for BMC, Argon 18 and Cervelo.  Then I remember that there's nothing wrong with the bike in my garage and I probably will never race again.  |
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Post by zero7159 on Jan 23, 2013 13:49:53 GMT -8
By the way Helios, you can bitch and moan all you want about iRacing, but I know you are hooked on it. That set up you did on the SRF was superb. You obviously put some time into it. That car went from a definite "no" for me to a "#$#@ yeah" car, thanks entirely to your set up. I even did two official sessions of the last SRF race week at Charlotte road course. I cannot wait to try your McLaren set up. I already love the car, but I am sure it will be better with your set up. And, you did a great set up for the Cadillac, which I wish I could use in the fixed set up Cadillac Cup.
So, hate the game all you want, just keep those kick ass set ups coming. ;D
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Post by helios16v on Jan 23, 2013 14:21:34 GMT -8
Now I never said I "hate" the game. I merely said I preferred rF & R07 because that is where my mates run at.....and that is where I get my greatest joy from sim racing.....duking it out with my mates. That said, I enjoy iRacing as an alternate sim when there isn't anything going on with the usual suspects. I just hate the cost of it.....and the limited content. And yes, I'll continue to produce tunes for the gang if they would like to use them.  |
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Post by oldslowfred on Jan 23, 2013 15:39:07 GMT -8
Remember ISI have a pro sim used by F1 teams, wanna take a guess at the kind of cash floating around that pond? They seem to take a long view, keeping updating the one sim rather than a long list of "new" games. This is cheaper as you have no need for massive advertising, lets face it Rf1 is still selling to the point it was worth updating it for Win 8. So RF1 will run on Win 8 now??? I have been running rF1 on Windows 8 for about a month now. No problems with rF1 that I have noticed. Windows 8, now that is a different beast... just don't get me started  |
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Post by Knight of Redemption on Jan 23, 2013 16:38:26 GMT -8
So RF1 will run on Win 8 now??? I have been running rF1 on Windows 8 for about a month now. No problems with rF1 that I have noticed. Windows 8, now that is a different beast... just don't get me started I junked it Fred, it updated and bricked my new ultra book, so kicked it into touch and rebooted Win 7. There is nothing about Win 8 I miss, Apps? have a phone and a tab that runs them all thank you. |
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Post by oldslowfred on Jan 23, 2013 16:56:15 GMT -8
I have been running rF1 on Windows 8 for about a month now. No problems with rF1 that I have noticed. Windows 8, now that is a different beast... just don't get me started I junked it Fred, it updated and bricked my new ultra book, so kicked it into touch and rebooted Win 7. There is nothing about Win 8 I miss, Apps? have a phone and a tab that runs them all thank you. I have thought about going back to Win 7 several times now and odds are I eventually will. I installed Win 8 on both my new and old racing computer's (the old will be my new desktop workstation). When I fully switch my desktop over if I can still stand Win 8 and there seems 'some' usefulness I will probably put Windows 7 on the race computer but keep Win 8 on the desktop. I figured I needed to try to understand and come to grips with this latest MS idiocy but all it has done so far is expand my horizons on the depth of stupidity. |
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Post by zero7159 on Jan 23, 2013 17:01:42 GMT -8
I junked it Fred, it updated and bricked my new ultra book, so kicked it into touch and rebooted Win 7. There is nothing about Win 8 I miss, Apps? have a phone and a tab that runs them all thank you. I have thought about going back to Win 7 several times now and odds are I eventually will. I installed Win 8 on both my new and old racing computer's (the old will be my new desktop workstation). When I fully switch my desktop over if I can still stand Win 8 and there seems 'some' usefulness I will probably put Windows 7 on the race computer but keep Win 8 on the desktop. I figured I needed to try to understand and come to grips with this latest MS idiocy but all it has done so far is expand my horizons on the depth of stupidity. I am using Windows 8 on my desktop PC, which I use for my photos, personal documents, videos, etc., but I stuck with Windows 7 on my gaming PC, largely because I was worried about whether rFactor would run in Windows 8. At this point, I will stick with the status quo. I don't want to do anything to screw up my gaming PC, which is running better than ever. |
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I also have used 24 inch monitors, one of which I bought in 2008 and continue to use today. And, I built my own PC to keep costs down. 
Then I remember that there's nothing wrong with the bike in my garage and I probably will never race again. 
