V8 Supercars - Event 3 - Pukekohe (5/22/13)

[Jeff H.]

First off, props to NoName for a great great race track! Very well done!

I opted for a three stop strategy on softs. It worked! I ran 13, 13 , 12, and 12. I did some practice with the inters but I was a good second and a half off with them so I decided to take my chances. The race was good, no major contact with anyone.

I really want to say here that I am totally against splitting into two rooms. I think that would go against everything Jason, Dale and the other stewards have worked so hard for. I remember when 2O4F started growing and with only 8 cars to a race there was no choice but to start splitting rooms, it seemed to me that the club itself also became split. Hell, there were a lot of guys over that I never even met because of that! I love seeing everyone on race night, not HALF of everyone.

[Deleted]

Agreed. We've been running upwards of 40 drivers every Sunday at ESR for the better part of 4 years.  There are occasional wrecks and problems, but after some growing pains each season, everyone learns how each person races.  It's getting used to knowing the drivers individually that you find yourself around, and how they go into Turn 1, or how they make a pass, or how they run side-by-side.  It might suck the first few races but eventually it irons itself out.

Out of curiosity, Jeff and the other front runners, what are you running as far as Caster, Steering Angle and degrees of rotation? I'm starting to wonder if I'm massively plowing my tires and not noticing it? It would explain why I did okay at Adelaide where most of the corners are sharp and slow, but tearing strips out of the tires on sweeping turns like Puke......

[Deleted]

i gotta agree
the 2 room split is a bad idea.
if you split a pack into 2 groups, the driver in those groups will always be in those groups.
to be a better racer you have to race better drivers.all the time.
and
Since i started doing the in the hunt videos i can see. all the guys around me
getting faster.and that's great! and my hats off to those drivers.
but with faster lap times.means everything thing around you is faster.
i think the crew is getting used to hot lapping and and not so much driving in the pack.
with that being said there is one fix we could do?
V8 practice server could be set up with a 5-10 lap races during the week.
so a pack of drivers can learn work. we used to do this a long time ago and it worked.

restarts
i have never ask for a restart, and don't think i ever will. cautions breed cautions.
i have been screwed over by more restarts, than I've gain from them. unless there's
a big pile up.i say don't use them.
now if we do need them. then lets look at the real V8 starting package 2 standing and 1 rolling.
and go from there. i was deep in the pack last night and the only caution i saw was Kelly getting turned into the wall. parts every where and no restart.
drivers are going to rub and fight for position. it always happens. so we as driver need to get used to it.

[Deleted]

Decent race overall. The tires were a nightmare. There seemed to be no gradual fall-off to me. More of a cliff. I firmly believe I would have finished in the top 10 if my third set didn't give up on me and make me end up in the sand. Practicing pit stops should also have been a priority. I seemed to get scared of the tire cliff and pit earlier than everyone else, losing positions the whole way.

The lag/cars warping wasn't much of an issue. There was one situation where Minkler popped up out of nowhere in my mirrors, and disappeared half a second later, and then 5-10 seconds later appeared in front of me and disappeared, almost as if he had passed me while invisible. I don't think my position changed from 11th during all this, so it might have just been a desync issue.

On to the apologies. Sweeny, at the end of the back straight, through those new turns, I plowed into you pretty good. You were coming back on-track from the left after a spin, and I moved over to the right and let off the accelerator, but I had no more road to move over. I thought you were doing to stay on the left but you juked right, and I ended up hitting you square in the side or the back. Apologies about that.

Also sometime during the race someone spun in that same section and ended up sideways. A few cars were collected, me included. I ended up t-boning the poor guy, I think. Not sure I could have gone anywhere as I had cars on both sides of me, but it was still an unpleasant situation for all involved.

As far as restarts, it's down to the admins, I can only offer my input (which is of little value as I'm one of the new guys.)

I don't want to be the "At my last job, we did it like this..." guy, but the efnetsimracing way of restarting for technical failures ONLY seems to work pretty well. Wheel gets unplugged? Lose FFB? PC lock up? Restart. Anything else is a racing incident.

Having said that, I'm very adaptable, and have no issues with restarts for large wrecks, either, if that's what most people want.

Congratulations to all podium finishers! Looking forward to the next race.

[neverender158]

I don't want to see 2 groups either but that is why i used the EPL setup. That way people have the opportunity to move up and race with faster guys, but if we can all run in 1 group that is the ideal setup.

The wife asked how my race went and I was honest and told her it didn't go well for me and I am frustrated with myself. I tried a 1 stop strategy on inters and that blew up in my face. That being said, that is my fault. I was too focused on trying to be faster on my lap times and never even focuses on tire strategy until it was too late. I ran on this track for 2 weeks on softs, never once looking at tire wear until this past weekend. Again, this is all my fault and I won't let it happen again. I will be focused on tires and strategy along with my lap times. I mean I had 1 pitstop and a drive through penalty because of my dumb fingers and end up 19th and 3 laps down, jeff has 4 pitstops and wins! Dale does a 1 stop strategy on softs!

My new goal is to not get freaking lapped every race, let alone 2 or 3 times. Finishing 3 laps down is very discouraging, but I know the only way for me to get better is to learn these cars and setups.

[K Juliot]

Congrats to Jeff on the win.

Great racing tonight and a lot of fun. Huge field, that is awesome guys!! Great version of the track Jason.

I was laying down my best lap times in official practice and managed to get close in Qualy so was happy about that. The last restart ended up being my worse one so had some ground to make back up. I somewhat agree with John in that with everyone on different pit/ tire managament stratergy that it took some of the "Racing" out of it, but was interesting how it all played out in the end. I went with two stops using softs doing 17 lap stints. In the end I would have been in great shape but the wheel deal really killed any charge at the end for me.

About 3/4 or 2/3rds of the way through the race I bounced a curb and noticed my wheel center was now shifted to the right just a bit, as the race wound down it kept moving further to the right till at the end my wheel center was about at the 3:30 to 4:00 position. This really made tuff to race let alone just drive, all this caused the guys behind me to catch up on the last lap which made for an interesting finish.

As to the fast guys passing the slower guys I've been on both ends of the stick on this deal and I really didn't have to much of an issue other then a couple guys suddenly slowing on the race line unexpectidly to let me by. Best advice I can give is if your being lapped is to stay off the racing line coming to the corner slow a little ealier to let the passer slip inside, you make the late apex turn and all is good with that barely slowing your pace even if racing someone. Same deal if letting someone pass on corner exit just make your intention clear by moving off the normal line.

Last bit on my wheel deal and it is a G27. During the race I did hit the FFB reset button and it didn't change anything. After the race I closed RF, re-opened it with V8's at Puke, left the pits and same deal, wheel 90deg to the right. I then closed RF again unplugged the USB for the wheel from the PC and redid it, let the wheel do it's reset and all was fine when I went back into RF. I have never had this issue before and hope to never again.

[Deleted]

In regards to restarts... We held a vote on it at ESR almost 4 years ago, for the very same reason as tonight: for every guy it helps, it screws another. We majority voted to never restart except for technical/server glitches.

It's definitely been a problem for some people, and the occasional pileup sucks, but hey, that's how it happens in real life too. You deal with it like any other race. I prefer that to constant restarts, personally. But I go with what the league decides.

I would DEFINITELY recommend rolling starts at least at SOME of the races this season, but you MUST practice those rolling starts before the race to make sure the pace car works correctly!!! Lots of track builders never take the time to figure out their pace car behaviour, so you end up with a pace car that does 150 mph its entire lap, or a pace car that starts in the the middle of Sector 2 instead of the start/finish line, or a pace car that warps into the middle of the grid from behind.... But I'm all for rolling starts when it works properly.

[Deleted]

Oh, and yes, what a great track! Easily on par with anything I've seen from VirtuaLM, IMO. WITH a sand trap fix, I'll try to run it at ESR in the future.

[richmink76]

I thought that was a pretty great race. After 49 laps there were 5 drivers duking it out for 4th place nose to tail, and sometimes fender to door (or should I say fender imbedded in door) . I really couldn't get more than 12 laps out of the softs so I planned on 4 stops and just go balls out. I pitted with 8 to go, came out in 8th and by the end got up to 5th so it kind of worked. The last lap was a typical V8 last lap, just crazy.
I also think splitting the rooms is a bad idea. What really makes this great is the large grids. You always have someone to race with.  

[robbmc]

Great racing last night. One of my best races and a 16th place finish. Went with softs and pitted every 10 laps or so. Had a few good battles along the way. These cars seem to agree with me more that most others and that makes it fun. Congrats to the winners.

[K Juliot]

The only warping car I seen all night after we moved servers was Ed's like everyone else said he constantly had pings 600+ to me.

Restarts that is a tough deal, yup pile ups are just like real racing and tough crap to everyone involved and everyone should be more careful. Seems as though the guys that are trying to be careful on the starts and let the positions sort out are seen as a weakness by a few and this few try to take advantage of that, thus creating the very thing the others are trying to avoid.

With that being said on the other hand we do this for fun, and to have hours of practice and your planned race night ruined in a first lap pile up is not why we do this. I think we should restart for guys getting taken out big on the start in the first few corners anyway. Everyone deserves a chance at compleating a race whether starting in the back or the front.

Like was said 2 restarts then it's rolling start if everyone can't get it right. A league I was in years ago had an issue with first lap pile ups in turn 1, so they went to single file rolling starts and you didn't go till the guy in front of you went and so on. Also no passing before the start finish line. This solved the problem but made for a strung out race from the get go.

[Deleted]

I ran 2 pits on inters and went it around 18, 36. I didn't feel like I was pushing the tires much at that rate but what I did and I forgot to mention was I ran softs on the right side for both my pit stops. I really liked it.

For the record I'm against the two room idea as well, I was just putting an idea out to try to problem solve a bit. For me the big grids are fun and we do always have people to race with. I also think the technical error restarts a good rule and hopefully we'll all realize we have to be careful in the first few laps. Keep in mind if you're faster than the people around (especially in a 50 lap race) you'll eventually get by, no need to risk the whole race for the sake of a spot on two on the first few corners.

Ed Durbin was all over the track for me last night, not his fault but the connection I think but he was side to side and everywhere in a very random manner when I was near him. Noname Jason was a bit like that too but less pronounced.

[F1Fan07]

- Splitting rooms isn't going to solve anything. I've done many races with up to 40 cars without incidents. I recommend that those that caused incidents look at the replay (here's a glitch-free one from the server www.box.com/s/73o6n63n8ih04ky2doth ) and critically analyze what went wrong. I reviewed the major Lap 1 incidents and they were all preventable and would've happened if we had 10, 20 or 30 cars. The difference with 30 cars is you're more likely to hit someone then go spearing off into the sand.

- Restarts. We have always been a social league and that means getting as many cars through the first lap as possible. I encourage drivers that are new to the mod to practice starts offline with an AI field and with a full tank and cold tires. If the first time you run under those conditions is when I advance the server to race then you aren't likely to have a clean first lap.

- totalo: yes with large fields you will find the replays have missing data. I've never tested that network setting to see if it helps with replays. Note that my server is set to limit client bandwidth to 128 kbps each but I don't know if that affects replays or what you see on track in real time.

- @kj: if the wheel slips again you may have the common G27 loose sensor problem. My first G27 did that when I hit a barrier then a day or so later would refuse to calibrate to centre. There are guides on the web to fix it if you're out of warranty.

[Kelly G]

I will contribute a bit more than my one line frustration comment from last night.

There is no reason we can't run large grids in one room. I think everyone here is experienced enough to run door to door with each other without incident.

Chris and I ran 4 corners side by side last night in practice but running a race pace. No incidents and no issues. The reason for that? Respect for each other.

My perception is that there is an overly aggressive attitude in the mid pack right now that doesn't really need to be there.

Drivers need to keep a level head, and have some respect for the drivers around them.

I am absolutely about the racing. I want a great battle on the track just like everyone else I suspect but we have some drivers that are just losing their heads in packs in the opening stages of the race and making poor decisions.

I am absolutely against two rooms for every single reason already mentioned previously.

I am also against restarts period but that is my personal opinion. I have never asked for a restart and never will. I do understand why the race organizers use them and I follow suit in the race series I host as well so it can't be said that I am not towing the line there.

My comment on mic last night was aimed squarely at the driver who put me into the wall, not about a lack of a restart.

Race hard, race clean and let's try to have fun!

Cheers!

[Seahawks1Fan]

Ok, everyone take a deep breath and relax. First off, I won't ignore the fact that we are going through some growing pains as we have such large fields now. This is what I've been aiming for the previous 5 seasons and am very excited we now have reached the goal of an actual V8SC grid.

I want to put to rest any ideas that we will be splitting into 2 groups. If I wanted this, I would never have promoted this league, done the highlight videos, etc. These are done to promote the league and spread interest and I believe it accomplished that to some extent. I will repeat, we will not be splitting the grid into 2 groups....period. I also do not intend on incorporating a rolling start. I want to stay as true to this series as possible.

I haven't had a chance to look at the replay, but with 25+ cars, the odds of an early incident are greatly increased as everyone is bunched up and there is a "slinky" effect going into the corners. If you are mid pack and back, you MUST brake early and give yourself room to stop suddenly. While this is easy to understand, it's not always easy to implement when the adrenaline is running at the start of a race.

I want to keep this league/series social and fun. This is what we were founded on and that is what makes us unique from many other leagues. If you don't like the social aspect, this probably isn't the league for you. If you want to race with nameless drivers, then I suggest Race2Play. Not trying to be crude, but as you all know by now, I call it like I see it. Respect for each other is a MUST. Neither myself nor the stewards will tolerate anything else.

As for the server issue, apparently my machine and/or connection is unable to handle 25+ cars. It does sound like Dale's server handled it well for the most part, so we will continue to look at our options. One option may be to ask you all to donate a few bucks each if we need to move to a paid server. Some of you have already donated, so you would not need to donate again. I believe this may be the direction we are headed, but I'll keep you posted.